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Shock collars illegal in Wales

Discussion in 'Dog Training and Obedience Forum' started by Skip, Jan 23, 2014.

  1. Skip

    Skip Guard dog Pack Leader

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  2. Taiairam

    Taiairam Non-aggressive breed Pack Leader

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    I didn't read it - I just wonder why?

    And then this - why is the US so different from the rest of the figgin' world? Something like this could not happen...
  3. Skip

    Skip Guard dog Pack Leader

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    You should read it Maria - it's an interesting article. Much of it is talking about those remote collars that people use who don't have fences.
  4. AgsTurner

    AgsTurner Mature Dog Pack Leader

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    Hmmm.. this one's a tricky one for me. Some of you know I use a shock collar on Grover... and I know that has literally saved his life. If he kept roaming the way he had been, he would likely have been run over or shot by a farmer - and this is after we spent good money and elbow grease on reinforcing and raising our fences, burying chicken wire UNDER all our gates and along the bottom of our fences... and we have an acre of fenced backyard so that was bloody hard work, jsut to stop him from digging under. And then the darned canine starts climbing trees.

    Having said that I do use it with a physical fence... and we trained him to the fence. It only took him one actual shock to get it, and yes, he yelped, but that was all it took and he learned very very quickly to back away when his collar beeps. Now he knows exactly how close he can sit to the fence, and someone I drive into the backyard and see him sitting virtually at the gate and I'm thining.. wooow he's close to the fence, but he knows where the boundaries are, to milimetre precision. He isn't afraid of the collar, in fact the moment I pick it up he comes and sits in front of me so I can put it on, and when I take it off he sniffs and licks it before I put it in the cupboard.

    The collars now are so well made with so many levels of stimulation with varying degrees of distance before it actually delivers stimulation that I've never had a second thought about using it. But I have to admit I wouldn't use it without a physical fence - I think dogs need a visual marker to reference and if there isn't a fence at all.... the possibility of them charging through it and not being able to get back in IS all too real. But then, every dog is different, and clearly the dog referenced in the article didn't see the shock as a deterrent enough.

    I honestly don't know what we would have done if the collar hadn't kept Grover in... the memory of being called by RSPCA on our way home from work telling us that they have both of them.... the sinking feeling in the pit of the stomach, the fear when we came home and the dogs were no where to be seen.... that collar has literally saved both dogs' lives and our sanity.
    Thunderstail and lenkelf like this.
  5. oshwyn5

    oshwyn5 Mature Dog Pack Leader

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    You misspelled whales and why would anyone put a shock collar in a whale?
    Taiairam and teresaserrano like this.
  6. Thunderstail

    Thunderstail Puppy Member

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    I don't know who else use shock collars for training but I do believe this can save dogs lives, on special situation and of course right use/training. I helped my uncle train his rat terrier Jack and collie Gummer not to cross their wide yard using this contain and train type of innotek dog fence:

    My uncle has a farm and wide yard and near to a busy road and he lost couple of dogs on road accident. His doggie boys are big help on his farm but Jack whose bit dominant over Gummer and lead when they play. So basically the trainer said they needed to be trained at least 3 times a day and should have play time before and after so I was able to help for few days. We're glad they are learning so well but not too slow, in about a month now we moved most of the flags, recognizing the open fence and responding on the beep. Wales have wide farms and farmers too can benefit on this device.
  7. oshwyn5

    oshwyn5 Mature Dog Pack Leader

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    Well my feeling is that these "invisible fence" units are a bad idea since if the dog gets up a running start (chasing a squirrel) they blast past it before they know what is going on, then any time they attempt to get back in the yard they get zapped.
    So while they may be a training tool some people feel are useful, I have no use for them. I prefer a good reliable double fence (wood and metal).
    If you have dogs, you are not necessarily going to have a perfect beautiful lawn and landscape that you can show off to the neighborhood. You are going to need a fenced yard, and will likely face digging and pooping, and urine killed grass and chewed on saplings.

    As to why such things are tolerated in the US, I think much of it traces back to our being a nation of small homestead farms. In Europe, for a long time farms were all owned by a wealthy landowner and leased to or run by share croppers (peasants) who worked for a share of the crop. They were not allowed to restrict the land owner's access nor hunt on his land, nor keep anything he did not approve of. In the US , your land was yours to do with as you pleased. Your home was your castle, and you had the right to place a "No Trespassing, No solicitors" sign and keep people off your land with fierce dogs and guns.

    In general the common law evolved under the premise that a farmer was not going to abuse his animals since they were his livelihood. He would do what was best. So with the exception of obvious cases of abuse, it was pretty much allowed that a farmer or rancher had the right to fence his property as he saw fit (barbed wire for example). Yes there were the "range wars" where dirt farmers fenced off their plots and this conflicted with cattle ranchers who let their cattle range free over vast areas. In the end, it prevailed that you had the right to fence your land as you saw fit whether you used it all or not.

    Even now in most farming / ranching states (Like Texas) there are provisions that you have the right to kill your own animal (dog , horse,...) as long as you do it in a humane manner; but you do not have the right to do it to someone else's animal unless it is actively predating upon your animals (or posing a threat to life and limb of your self or your family). There are also very strict rules regarding failure to provide adequately for your animals. IE if you cannot feed them you can sell them or you can put them down, but you cannot let them starve.
  8. AgsTurner

    AgsTurner Mature Dog Pack Leader

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    Interestingly, a friend of mine came home to find her own GSD had mauled and killed her alpaca, and she was so freaked out that she packed up her dog in the car and took her straight to the vet to be put down - the vet said if the incident to your own livestock is caused by your own pet, he's not allowed to put them down until a week has passed from the incident. I know it's to prevent people from making impulsive / emotional decisions about their own pets, but... if your dog took down the neighbour's livestock they have the right to shoot that dog on sight.
  9. oshwyn5

    oshwyn5 Mature Dog Pack Leader

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    Not just to prevent impulsive decisions, it is a valid health concern.
    They want to quarantine a dog that has killed for a minimum of a week to make sure it does not have any symptoms of rabies.
    While rabies is very rare in dogs, especially if they are vaccinated, the risk posed if you have been handling the dog and it is rabies positive is too great to take chances.
  10. AgsTurner

    AgsTurner Mature Dog Pack Leader

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    OH they don't quarantine the dog, they let the owners take them home and everything. Rabies isn't really a concern in Australia (Jen am I right?) - we don't have it here, I don't think. That's why our canine importation laws here are so very very strict.. Lia can attest to that! :D
  11. Lia

    Lia Under Dog Pack Leader

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    oooooohhhhhh yes!!! very very strict laws but who can blame them? Australia is very specific about pets being imported in. They need every sort of test you can imagine... and no, Oz doesnt have rabies. And they obviously want to keep it that way.
  12. Skip

    Skip Guard dog Pack Leader

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    No rabies here :)

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